Posts by Sad emo

15

People Meant To Live Forever

by choosing life in

jw
friends

i was thinking about the reasoning the watchtower used as a proof that people were really meant to live forever.

they said that because our cells continually replace themselves, we really were made to live forever.

they even went so far as to say scientists could not figure out why this process didn't go on forever and were puzzled by this.. then i realized that all animals have the same mechanisms in place, yet the witnesses say they were not meant to live forever.

Sad emo

No.

It doesn't say so in the Bible plus the fact that God promised Adam & Eve that they would die the day they ate from the tree - and they didn't physically die, suggests only two possibilities:

a) God lied and the serpent was telling the truth.

b) He was talking of a different kind of death (which I understand to be spiritual), a theory which JWs discount by doing mental gymnastics with the time scale!

The big problem for JWs (and a lot of other Christians too) as far as I can see is that they believe everything was created perfect - and physical death just doesn't fit into that category. The reality is that God created everything very good - ie just as it should be, along with the laws of nature, weather systems, earthquakes, viruses etc, and death - He created a complete natural order which is in a sense, 'perfectly flawed'.

That is a massive difference and hard to grasp if you can't imagine a perfect God creating something in a seemingly imperfect manner.

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sad emo

I think your conditions for scientific evidence are flawed.

Science is, by nature a developing of knowledge and theory - true the laws are always there, but not all fully known at any one time - therefore to cite your example about not eating pork - they might not have then known about the parasites which were present - their scientific knowledge told them that a) pork doesn't stay fresh for very long in warm temperatures and b) it goes off quickly (no refrigeration back then lol), c) for 'some reason' it can make you pretty sick!

So, they make a law saying it's 'unclean'.

Nowadays, we do know about the parasites and the need for refrigeration of pork - through scientific development and we can take appropriate precautions.

The same for shellfish - they can't have known that these creatures are essentially vacuum cleaners of the seas/rivers, they just knew that you can get sick eating them - so they were banned as 'unclean'

What better deterrent was there than potential 'punishment' (ie sickness/death) supposedly from God for eating 'unclean' foods?

And who's to say that scientific knowledge won't one day develop enough to prove the existence of a creator? There is still so much we just don't know yet.

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sad emo

Direct Manifestation: If you're going to bring this up (like Mary's appearances) make sure there are multiple witnesses to this manifestation and that none of which are in the aforementioned highly emotional state or an altered state.

Well Mary posts quite regularly on JWD and elsewhere and we've all witnessed her posts and Mouthy has met her several times and none of us were delusional or emotional at the time and we can still check her post history and its still there and...

um, does that count?

14

No sacred trees in Eden - what would have happened?

by Awakened07 in

-this is a hypothetical "for the sake of argument"-topic, where we take for granted that the biblical story of adam and eve (as it is presented in the bible we have available today) is literally true.

i think it can be an interesting exercise.. now - let's for this discussion say god did not plant any 'special' tree in the garden of eden.

no tree of knowledge, and no tree of life.

Sad emo

A more thought provoking scenario for me would be if He'd planted the trees but not told Adam & Eve what they were and not to eat from them.

If they had eaten, either of their own will or by the serpents instruction, would they have still 'sinned' by doing so?

I think not - without law, there is no sin - and yet they would still have come to know 'good from evil', so would they have later become sinful? What or who defines 'good' and 'evil'?

I personally think the story is an explanation of man's first awareness of God and subsequent development of conscience/moral law - to be followed later by the written Mosaic laws (within the Hebrew context - other cultures developed their own legal codes).

29

Women - Do You Know What Men Really Want in a Relationship ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

no, it's not just sex !

lol!

contrary to popular opinion !

Sad emo

Nope lol!

But then I'm not looking for one either so no worries!

15

Tent cities growing outside Los Angeles

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnnooo6trs8.

.

Sad emo

ninja quit taking the p***

The youtube clip, in case you didn't bother watching it, is a BBC news report!

Here is the online story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7297093.stm

Is that real enough for you now?

And remember, there but for the grace of God...

75

The "Historical Jesus" and Christian Faith

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the wake of lovelylil's recent threads on the "historical jesus," a side question.. let's assume, for the sake of the discussion, that the four canonical gospels are not historical accounts of jesus' life, but a much later elaboration of christian faith in narrative form -- there are many reasons for such a proposal, but i'm not going into them right now -- let's just assume.. what do you think would be better or worse to find out in the historical field, from the perspective of christian faith:.

1. that there was no "historical jesus" at all, and that the gospels are essentially a religious myth made (hi)story, "the word made flesh" so to say;.

2. that there was a "historical jesus" completely different from the christian saviour -- for example, a galilean apocalyptic prophet and political zealot, trying to cleanse the nation and the temple from both the roman occupation and ritual disorders, with no interest at all in starting a new universal (i.e.

Sad emo

Terry, for once I agree with you - on your description of the situation today at least!

Too many spoon fed Christians who are either not prepared or too frightened to challenge or be challenged on their beliefs.

That's when the real pretenders get weeded out...

9

Does the Watchtower have any Credibility left?

by JH in

did the watchtower ever have any credibility, and if they did, when did they lose it?.

Sad emo

What R.crusoe and WTwizard wrote!

I think, even to those who don't join, have zero interest and think that JWs are a bunch of religious nuts, the Watchtower still has some credibility simply because its members present a united cause - that might not be true but its all about image!

75

The "Historical Jesus" and Christian Faith

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the wake of lovelylil's recent threads on the "historical jesus," a side question.. let's assume, for the sake of the discussion, that the four canonical gospels are not historical accounts of jesus' life, but a much later elaboration of christian faith in narrative form -- there are many reasons for such a proposal, but i'm not going into them right now -- let's just assume.. what do you think would be better or worse to find out in the historical field, from the perspective of christian faith:.

1. that there was no "historical jesus" at all, and that the gospels are essentially a religious myth made (hi)story, "the word made flesh" so to say;.

2. that there was a "historical jesus" completely different from the christian saviour -- for example, a galilean apocalyptic prophet and political zealot, trying to cleanse the nation and the temple from both the roman occupation and ritual disorders, with no interest at all in starting a new universal (i.e.

Sad emo

Well I'm going to buck the trend and go for option #1!!

I don't know whether I choose this because of my theology education. I'll try to explain - I'm quite comfortable with the idea that the contents of the OT historical books contain similarities and relation to older myths and rituals (eg the origins of the passover meal, and marching round Jericho).

Now the important bit - myths are not always 'just' stories, they can also have the same essential truths attached to and running through them, to me that's what matters, not HOW it is revealed but WHAT is revealed as the ESSENTIAL truth. To me this would not discount my belief in a divine creator whose presence I have also 'experienced' in my own life - and has spoken consistently throughout history (via mythology, if you like)

I suppose option 2 could be a possibility under this premise too, but I'm more comfortable with #1 because it has parallels with other mythologies whereas a real Jesus without parallels would strangely seem less believable! Oh what a contradiction lol!

22

Is Customer Service/Common Courtesy a dinosaur ?

by AK - Jeff in

i have lamented for a long while about the lack of customer care in our area.

fast food restaurants have taken the fast food out it while the price keeps moving up.

service stations no longer exist - replaced by self fuel bays in front of a so called 'convenience store' - and typically manned by a grumpy cashier.

Sad emo

Alas, it may be becoming so Jeff - manners and service take time and time=money - on both sides of the shop counter!

Like brinjen, I've seen it from both sides. In my shop, I ALWAYS greeted everyone who came in and said goodbye when they left - no matter how they'd treated me! IMHO, there is NO excuse whatsoever for lack of basic good manners - and yet my greetings would still sometimes be met with stony silence and a scowl which said 'how dare you speak to me?!' Whatever lol!

If I walk into a shop, I make a point of smiling and saying hello and goodbye to the person who serves me - from my pov I'm acknowledging to them that they're a human being and are appreciated for their service - again, I'm sometimes greeted by stony silence, although more often they're suprised!

I suspect that the assistant who microwaved your gravy thought you were being awkward - sorry to say that! - in spite of your expressed genuine concern, which should realistically have been properly addressed, again as brinjen says, unfortunately its all sales and time driven in some places.

I don't know, maybe some folks have just never learnt to appreciate showing and accepting good manners - its not part of the instant gratification we expect these days. Or maybe we're turning into machines devoid of real human emotion and incapable of sincere interaction